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Formatting: Italicized titles[]

Hi Fenyx, I was wondering if it would be possible to have your bot automatically italicize Ultima titles (Ultima V, Ultima VI, Martian Dreams, etc.) in articles if they aren't already? It is formatting that needs to be done and I've noticed people going through and doing it manually. This would save the laborious process of combing every article to make the changes. --Terilem 06:46, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, sorry I'd already offered to Polygoncount to do this but got distracted by RL partway through making it work. I'll get back on it. -- Fenyx4 13:38, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Thank you Fenyx, much appreciated. :) Another thing I forgot to mention: changing any instances of "Ultima VII/2" to "Ultima VII Part Two" would also be a big help. --Terilem 15:17, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
That one is really easy! FenyxBot is working on it now. -- Fenyx4 15:24, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
FenyxBot's work on italicizing the titles is done. I know it didn't catch everything but hopefully the large percentage of them have been caught. -- Fenyx4 23:01, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

NPC Infoboxes[]

Don't take this the wrong way, but the use for NPC infoboxes is not very apperant. What are they supposed to accomplish, when all the information in them is already included in the first sentence of the character description?

Personally I think, that you are wasting your time with them.--Tribun 10:37, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I'd already started writing stuff in the forum when you left this message. I replied to this there. -- Fenyx4 11:39, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

I wanted to inform you that all Ultima Underworld I NPCs are now online and can be Infoboxed by you. Also I don't plan to all Ultima IX one-liner NPCs, so you can infobox them as well (careful here, since some pictures have different sizes). Savage Empire can use Infoboxes as well.--Tribun 21:31, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. If I just ran the bot I'd be done by now but I need the large chunks of time free to follow-up and fill in all the information, fix picture sizes and specify species. Tryin' not to leave a mess behind me. Hopefully I'll have more free time soon. -- Fenyx4 16:28, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Btw., "Location" for the NPCs of Ultima Underworld would be in the infobox "Abyss-level X" (X being the level in question), apart from Corwin and Almric, this works with all of them (even Garamon, as he manifests on level 5)--Tribun 22:14, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I was just looking around for how it should be formatted. Do we have maps of the Underworld anywhere on here? I was hoping to enter them in such a way that if it is changed to links it'd be linking to somethin'. -- Fenyx4 22:27, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
Nope, we don't have these maps here.--Tribun 22:31, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Something must've went wrong when the bot infoboxed the Ultima V NPCs. All that have no picture in the article have their infobox below instead of beside the text.--Tribun 11:16, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Arg, figures that would happen the time I head to bed. Thanks. Should be fixed now. -- Fenyx4 14:21, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Abacus[]

Hiya Fenyx,

I noticed you just did an entry for abacus, and wondered if you would like a write up of how the abacus works in the Ultima 4 Character creation system?

I'd love to see that! -- Fenyx4 18:01, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Deleting discussion pages[]

Do we have to come to you to delete discussion pages? I see that "Talk: Great Bridge" is still around, even though it doesn't have an accompanying article. AngusM 20:32, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I missed that. If you find anything else like that you can mark it with {{Delete}}. -- Fenyx4 22:07, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
Talk pages, too? AngusM 22:21, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, if it's clear that I missed it when I was deleting its article. That template adds it to Category:Articles for deletion which allows me to find it when I go on a deleting spree. -- Fenyx4 22:26, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Bot request: common nounization of professions and races[]

I've decided that Forum:Need_policy_on_capitalization_of_races_(and_I_guess_other_things) has gone as far as it's going to, for now, and I've gone ahead and changed the style guide to reflect what I think is consensus that professions and races are common nouns. Do you think you could make bots to fix cases were these words are capitalized in the middle of sentences? Yes, I know you won't be able to think of all the words before you break for lunch, but you might get it started, and slowly, all professions and races will be covered. You might even make a template so we can flag words that you've missed.


BTW, as long as I'm here: I just lost everything I was writing you because I accidentally clicked on a link when I was done. Do you have the power to make sure the rich text editor doesn't do that? AngusM 22:07, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

If you really want to do this, then please find a way that won't shredder the links. Otherwise it will only create a huge mess od red dead-ends.--Tribun 22:09, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
This shouldn't be an issue. It's very easy to link a word or phrase that doesn't necessarily match the actual article name it's linking to. --Terilem 23:47, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
Here's what I have as a list to change so far;
  • Human
  • Gargoyle
  • Mage
  • Fighter
  • Goblin
  • Daemon
  • Bard
  • Shepherd
  • Dragon
  • Ranger
  • Wizard
  • Paladin
  • Druid
  • Troll
  • Tinker
  • Gwani
  • Emp
  • Sorcerers
  • Cyclops
  • Blackrock
Add it here if you have some more.
RE red links: Shouldn't be a problem.
RE Rich text editor: 'Fraid I don't. Probably best to take that concern to Wikia Help. -- Fenyx4 16:06, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
Just to clarify, is it possible to isolate "blackrock" only when it's a standalone term? For instance, at this point we haven't reached a consensus on whether things like "Blackrock Serpent" should be de-capitalized, so it might be best to leave those for now.
Also, I don't think "Ophidian" should be on the list. They were a society of humans, not a race unto themselves; it would be like writing "Britannian" without a captial letter. --Terilem 17:38, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, excellent point. Too much UO playing makes me think of Ophidians as a race of snake creatures.
With something like this I'm planning on monitoring all the bots changes to catch stuff like "Blackrock Serpent" and stop them from being changed.
As a slight aside I thought people would be interested in this; GW2 Capitalization. I find it amusing they are having to do the same cleanup we are. :) -- Fenyx4 18:23, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Broken Ultima VII Quotes[]

Can you fix the Ultima VII lore Quotes? Some genius altered them and now instead of linking to the "Book of Fellowship", it links to the organisation. I hope I won't offend anyone by saying that this is quite a stupid screw-up.--Tribun 14:51, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Ran FenyxBot over it to fix it. Just to be clear no one altered them from "The Book of Fellowship". They were always "Fellowship" but they were turned into links. Since they weren't links before no one noticed the ambiguity. Thank you for pointing this out but the vitriol was unnecessary. -- Fenyx4 16:53, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, it's just that such things sometimes tend to make be go up the wall.--Tribun 16:59, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
Then we have something in common, you and I. I suspect this also makes you kindred spirits with many other editors as well. What separates us, however, is that we are able to keep genteel restraint, even when we think someone has done something unnecessarily foolish, hamfisted or crude, and even when we feel it might suit our baser and more immediate emotions. AngusM 19:27, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
Tribun, it helps to take some humility from your own errors before rushing to lambaste others. We're all capable of mistakes and such abrasiveness is not productive. --Terilem 01:54, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Hey Fenyx4, had an idea: What about a new template called "LoreBook?" The new LoreQuote template fixes the redlink problem within a page, but those red links are still on the "wanted pages" list. The LoreBook template could be specifically for in-game books (so, Text + Book Name + Author + Game). I think there are much fewer of these currently quoted on the Codex than actual rulebooks etc., so it would be less of a problem to hunt them down. What do you think? --Polygoncount 03:31, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

I asked around and doing an #ifexists is equivalent to linking which is why it still shows up in the "wanted pages". I honestly sort of see this as a feature. Although I didn't like them being redlinks I was hesitant about changing it so they weren't since they are things that we might want articles about. This is sort of best of both worlds. Doesn't show up as a redlink in the article but still gives us a count of how many times we use it in the "wanted pages" putting some pressure on us to create those articles. -- Fenyx4 19:15, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

New Categories[]

Hey, noticed you added some new categories (Pages Needing Cleanup/Expert)... I seem to remember a "pages without images" category that was once easily-accessible from the "special pages" page... what happened to that? It was useful to go over them that way and see what needed help. --Polygoncount 20:49, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Category:Image_needed? I think you added images to nearly all of them! :)
Wow! I guess that's a good problem. For the future, though... --Polygoncount 21:17, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
I dunno for the future. I tried finding a way to list all pages without images but I didn't have any luck. I could have a bot run through and add the category to every page without an image but that might be a bit extreme. I dunno if EVERY page needs and image. -- Fenyx4 23:21, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, especially since there are lots of articles for which there simply aren't any pictures available in the gmes/manuals/etc., meaning that the banner is useless in these cases. So using the bot would only plaster the codex with banners that serve no use.--Tribun 23:26, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
Agreed, not all image-less pages need images. I guess we'll continue to deal with them as they come up. --Polygoncount 03:32, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Making special pages[]

What does it take to make a special page? Special permission? I was thinking of taking Forum:Need_policy_on_capitalization_of_races_(and_I_guess_other_things) and putting it onto the talk page of a special page that would be a lexicon of proper nouns for the Codex. These things are currently on the style guide, but instead of bloating that article, I thought a separate lexicon would be a better idea. AngusM 04:52, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Hrm, I'm not sure what you mean by special page. Like Special:SpecialPages? That requires installation of stuff on the wikia servers. That is probably out of our reach. If it is a list could it be put on something like Editable_Codex:Lexicon? -- Fenyx4 05:18, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
I would have called it the "Noun Lexicon". In that case, consider it requested. AngusM 05:26, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
Are you unable to create Editable_Codex:Noun Lexicon yourself? I think anyone should have permissions to create Project pages. I'll go ahead and create it just in case you can't. -- Fenyx4 05:29, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
I guess I'm not, but I just don't know how. Thanks, that's good enough. AngusM 15:07, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Toggling italics[]

I was wondering about italicized words that are embedded in italicized sentences. Isn't the proper way to do this by toggling the italics? That would mean that a mention of a game (which is usually italicized) which appears in a creature infobox caption (which are italicized by default) should be de-italicized, right? AngusM 01:48, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that's the case. A non-italicized title within an otherwise italicized sentence looks strange to me, and Wikipedia doesn't do it this way either. For example, see the hatnote at the top of this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_wars --Terilem 03:01, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
Proper English-wise I think AngusM is right. I've even done it some places. Think I was fairly consistently doing it for Template:Otheruses like on Sam's article... However I can't find any sources stating that it is the actual proper way. Just supporting fiction books doing it that way. -- Fenyx4 04:17, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
Yep, I stand corrected and I did find a couple of sources saying it, as well. I just assumed Wikipedia would have been following general English rules. --Terilem 04:34, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
So did we want to stick with proper English on this? I'm leaning to "yes". -- Fenyx4 04:51, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
No arguments from me! --Terilem 04:55, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
I changed how the italics for the Creature infobox's caption works so it should now be correct. I also changed how the Ultima IV NPC infobox's caption does it. I'll change the rest after some sleep. -- Fenyx4 05:21, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

New banner template[]

Hi Fenyx, I was thinking perhaps it would be good to have a new template for a "consensus required" banner. AngusM raised a good point about this recently as well. Speaking for myself, there are a lot of times where I'd like to draw attention to an issue for discussion but it doesn't feel appropriate to use the expert verification banner, since there isn't anything that needs to be verified, per se. Perhaps Expert-verify could even be changed to Consensus, since it allows for a broader range of situations. What do you think? --Terilem 08:48, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea of the consensus banner. I'm ambivalent about just changing the expert to it vs. having a different one. The ambivalence might be a good sign that just changing would be best though. :) If no one complains soon I'll go ahead and do that. -- Fenyx4 19:27, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ultima IV NPCs[]

Great job on the Ultima IV NPCs. I noticed you missed the Ultima IV gate guard, and I would have added him, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to add anything to your Ultima IV lists. Any hints? Dungy 19:16, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Also, because I'm an idiot, I forgot to change the name of my Avatar from the standard one that came with my version of Ultima IV. His name is Pissy Ey. Whoops! If anyone is too offended by this, I'll upload new screenshots, of course that'll take awhile. I'll change the name in the future. Dungy 22:46, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! I just wasn't sure how to do the guards. Especially in Yew which has three "a guard"s.
Add it to the lists on the city pages? Just add the npc with an NPC Infobox and make sure to specify the location. It'll automagically show up in the list. Maybe not immediately. Need to wait for it to run through the job queue. If you need to speed it up you can edit the city page and save it with no changes. -- Fenyx4 01:08, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
And thanks for helping with the U4 stuff! I'm excited to have the NPCs wrapped up. -- Fenyx4 01:16, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

CategoryTree Extension[]

Hey Fenyx, I'm not sure if you're the one to ask about this, but maybe you know who to ask at Wikia. I've noticed that we have the CategoryTree extension installed. However, as you can see in the NPCs by Species page, its configured to show only subcategories when the "+" symbol is clicked. However, it would be a lot more useful to have it cofigured by default to show all pages under that category, as well as the subcategories. Otherwise, I find the extension kind of useless. If we did have this enabled, it would be easier to check stuff in subcategories, without having to jump back and forth to the subcategories pages. And I don't really see any points against enabling that configuration (constant CT_MODE_ALL I think) as the default one. What do you think?--Sega381 18:45, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I'm asking around about this. So far I haven't gotten any positive replies. I did notice that WCPedia uses them like this. It's pretty nice (expand Kilrathi). My concern would be for categories with a LOT of pages in them. Category:Human for example would be pretty crazy expanded like that. Aaand I just realized I could check it out on the test I made User:Fenyx4/Sandbox. Looks like it just stops listing them after a certain amount. So, not useful for large categories. But to me it still seems useful for small categories. Hopefully we can get it set up. -- Fenyx4 04:22, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
Special:CategoryTree - Someone pointed this out on the forums. Not what you are asking for but still useful to know about. -- Fenyx4 04:47, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! BTW, I think I noticed that a parameter ($wgCategoryTreeMaxChildren) can be configured to say how many items can a node show after being expanded, which has a default value of 200. So we may be able change that default configuration to allow for more items to be displayed. We may have to configure it to stop after a certain amount anyway, maybe higher than 200; we should have to test if it is reasonable to have 1000 humans listed in the expansion of the node. But if we have few really big categories, it's not a big deal. Thanks again, and do tell me if it you can get it working.--Sega381 16:15, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Lazarus infoboxing[]

THANK YOU for sorting out all that infobox stuff. I realize that's a huge job. We'll soon have photos for every NPC from Ultima IV to Ultima IX. I can't believe I've added close to 800 images to the wiki over the last month and a half. Dungy 17:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

My pleasure. Fenyxbot took a lot of the pain out of it. You've been doing a crazy amount of stuff! -- Fenyx4 19:09, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
I've had WAY too much free time the last month. That will all come crashing to an end soon enough, and then I'll be back to my usual post rate. Dungy 19:17, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

The whole new skin thing[]

The whole new skin thing at wikia is even bigger. Whole wikias are already leaving and I have to admit that it pretty much shoots everything to hell. Many already are creating a mirror at ShoutWiki, which looks like a good alternative. What do you think about it? I for one have already decided to leave, should this shit get forced on us.--Tribun 12:46, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Admin rights[]

Fenyx, I was wandering, if you do have admin privileges, why do you not show up as an Admin in the Special:ListUsers page?--Sega381 16:22, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Weird, I have no idea. Special:UserRights still lists me as an admin and I can still delete stuff too. -- Fenyx4 20:15, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
Maybe Wikia is trying to put down unruly admins? :)--Sega381 20:37, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Main Page Tweaks[]

Hello, my name is Nic and I'm a member of the Wikia Content Team. In order to guarantee that your main continues to work properly with Wikia's ad policy, I had to make a few tweaks to your main page. - Wagnike2 17:51, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Because clearly ad policy is the most important feature of any wiki. Dungy 03:31, November 26, 2011 (UTC)
Darn tootin'! Now there's some crass, gargatuan Flash ad that comes up on every page, covering half of it in my wife's dinky 10" screen. Thank God for Aiera (and Aiera) 186.24.16.1 23:04, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Advertising competitive wikis[]

Fenyx, Wikia respects your decision to fork and move your contributions elsewehere but we cannot allow you to turn this wiki into an advertisement for your competing site or approach every new user to induce them to the forked wiki. Please leave this wiki in peace and ask the other members of your new community to do the same.

--semanticdrifter WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 16:51, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

So would you allow us to remove the pages that have been created, or are you claiming them For Great Justice?

--Guest.

Honestly I don't feel like Wikia has respected our decision to move elsewhere and it isn't fair for new contributors to end up here all alone when a living community is somewhere else. If you allowed a notice to remain on the main page I wouldn't have to come to each person separately.
I'm not filching from a community that resides here. I'm informing people that there is no community here. Leave a notice on the main page that the community has moved and if someone who is a legitimate Ultima fan who wants to do substantial contributions (and by that I mean more than a passing Wikia admin who spruces up the front page) decides to remove it I will respect that. But you aren't giving people who come here an informed choice. You are trying to win people over by keeping them ignorant. When people who might've been interested in starting something here learn that they've been editing an outdated and defunct wiki do you think they will thank you? But let this wikia stand on its own and give the people an informed decision and maybe, just maybe, someone will decide to adopt it.
I don't understand why you are fighting this so hard when it would be in your own self interest to leave a notice on the front page. Perhaps something like what we used to have before it was removed?

The previous community has moved to a new wiki, leaving The Codex of Editable Wisdom open for adoption. If you are interested in reviving the wiki, then please go ahead and edit!

-- Fenyx4 13:46, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps Wikia should be asking itself why new users consistently choose to participate in the new active wiki instead of contributing to Wikia. Perhaps Wikia should ask itself why it's afraid to allow users to know there is a competing wiki, and instead of allowing Wikia to compete on its own merits feels the only way their site can succeed is my preventing new users from knowing about alternatives. 99.252.98.219 17:27, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

In no way has Wikia interfered with the decision to fork, but there have to be boundaries when it comes this wiki. We simply cannot allow this wiki to be used as an advertisement for a competing site. You say you are informing people that there is no community here, but approaching everyone who edits and telling them that there is no community and they should go somewhere else actually just ensures that this is the case. The wiki will not be able to rebuild and stand on its own if everyone who edits here is told there is no community and they should put their in effort at another wiki. Just because we do not allow the direct advertisement of an alternative competitor does not mean we are hiding their existence. Wikia is a business and no business allows itself to advertise for the competition on their own front page.

I realize this may sound a little blunt, but I would like to make our stance on this clear to avoid further disruptions.

--semanticdrifter WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 19:05, May 10, 2012 (UTC)


By informing them that the community has moved elsewhere you aren't advertising you are informing. I asked if you thought people would thank you for keeping this a secret from them and I guess your answer is yes. I maintain that if someone makes an informed decision and they decide to stay then you won't lose them later when they discover you've hidden information from them.
And if people do decide to stay and they decide to take down the notice that is all well and good.
Any notice on the main page is fine as long as it links to the other wiki or links to something that links to it. Put whatever spin you want on it. How about?

This Wikia has been abandoned! See the discussion for details. We welcome new contributions and hope you adopt this Wikia!

Informs them that this place is currently empty, tells 'em where to go for more info, and encourages them to stick around! What's not to like? :) -- Fenyx4 19:37, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
First of all, I would like to thank you for keeping a civil and constructive tone throughout this conversation. Occasionally, the fallout from a wiki fork can degenerate and I'm glad that isn't happening here. That being said, I don't know how much further this conversation can go. Wikia's policy regarding advertising competing wikis is not going to change. Not posting an advertsiement for a competitior on the main page is not the same thing as hiding that competitor. It is not Wikia's obligation to inform its users of competing wikis. The only exceptions, and my only suggestions for you, is leaving notice on the forum or on your user blog although we can't allow a link to either on the main page.
--semanticdrifter WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 19:22, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
Actually, we can't even do that since all edits and posts that create links to our new wiki are marked as spam and are banned. Which is not cool by the way. 99.252.98.219 00:28, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
Our policy does allow notice of the forked wiki in the forum area and on an individual's user blog, just not on the main page and not linked to from the main page. We also won't allow the direct inducement of every new user individually as they eedit.--semanticdrifter WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 01:37, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
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